The movie jacket stated that it was "This new version of Snow White goes back 
to the Grimm Brothers dark fairy tale for its source, and tells the story in
an adult way: a nobleman who lost his wife remarries, and his new lady
consumed with jealousy of her stepdaughter, sets out to destroy her." MPAA
Rating: R for some horror, violence and a scene of sexuality.
Wow, this movie looked like the battle between evil and eviler! The only good guy in this movie was the bird in the hourglass.
Who was Claudia anyway? Where did she come from, and why? In the beginning, it looked like she was on a mission for her mother's sake, and near the end of the movie, the 'mirror' was telling her to give 'the child' life by stealing the husbands seed and bathing the child in the husbands blood! Of course, we were privy to the stealing of the seed, and a whole lot of fuss was pronounced around the preparations for the spilling of the blood...which did not occur.
As for Illiana, was she a bitch of a kid, or what? Man, she played her father like a Stradivarius! Do you miss 'Mother', (if so, then) 'Why is she (Claudia) coming?" " I wore this (Mother's) dress to please you..." not! And what was the point of (that is to say, why is a supposedly well-bred child) splashing Claudia in the face during the wedding ceremony?
In this particular tape we rented, there is no dialog between Claudia and her brother, Gustav, preceeding his attempt to murder Illiana. Yet, after he brings Claudia the heart of a pig, she consoles him to 'have no remorse' for what he did to 'such a scheming child.' As though he would have known Illiana was a schemer! Yes, Illiana was a schemer, but certainly not against him.
There is not much to be said for the dorks. They represented a fair cross-section of the 'outside' world Illiana ventured into after her escape from Gustav.
Well acted and well casted, but, out of a possible 4 stars, I give this one 2-1/2.
Mike
I thought the movie sounded familiar, in fact I thought we had watched at least a part of it two weeks ago on HBO. Midpoint I realized I had watched more than I thought I had, and by the last line..... "look, it's beginning to snow" .... yep, I had watched the whole movie now twice. Mike wanted to watch it again so that would make three viewings. And it needed at least three times across my brain for me to grasp the question/challenge put to the audience by the author/screenwriter:Where does evil lie?
We saw all sorts of horrifying things during this dark movie but the real evil, I have concluded, was within the child (and a few others mentioned casually in one-line comments, barely noticeable).
While we saw hags, and crones, rotting teeth, disfigured faces, mummified babies, snarling dogs, et al.... the real uglyness was in the hearts of the people who tortured those who were hungry and stole bread to satisfy their hunger; in those that tormented and perhaps burned at the stake the women who gave birth to a child who was deaf; in the child who would take delight in seducing her own father.
When the child, Illiana, paused, then deliberately threw the liquid into Claudia's face Mike commented with some shock: "What was that all about?!" Mike perhaps might not have understood the emotion underlying that action, but I think he did detect the "venom running through the child's veins" which is mentioned later.
All these revelations were made in the first quarter of the movie and perhaps soon forgotten by most horror-loving (or visual effects) viewers that frequent these kind of flicks. The last 3/4 of the movie concentrated on the torment within Claudia who was being possessed by her mother's spirit in the mirror.
I believe the roots of the movie are found in comments like the one that followed Illiana's statement: "I stole the bread because I was hungry" --- to which one of the miners commented that he, too, knew what that was like, having suffered persecution and torture under the tyrannany of the ruling class. There were several comments from these men about persecution and torture. On the flip side of these persecution comments was the one by Claudia that "I truly love Richard (name?) and want him to to love me."
What possessed Claudia throughout the movie was not some etherial figure in the mirror but the pain and anguish of rejection (suffered by her mother and then Claudia herself) which became the spirit of revenge. And at the heart of Claudia's pain (her mother's pain revisited and now experienced herself) was Illiana, the Snow White figure, wearing the mask of beauty and innocence.
The journey of the movie was Illiana suddenly realizing/accepting her own evil and coming tearfully to Claudia for forgiveness, then her growing in goodness through her interactions with the miners. Illiana began to care about others.
While we saw revenge portrayed in all it's forms, the movie I believe was more about the roots of evil; and that theme was woven into the fabric of the story through those subtle and perhaps overlooked one-liners spoken by various characters throughout the movie.
At the time, the original story may have been an attempt to uncover the unjust and cruel ways of the rich or ruling faction.
And a side note: When I saw it on HBO two weeks ago I could swear that after Claudia's son died she had a conversation with the "mirror" and was told to have Illiana killed (so both children would be dead) and her heart cut out and brought back to her. When Claudia asked who would do this she was told to ask her brother. This was not mentioned at all and there seemed to be a question in my mind as to why the mute brother would take that action on his own since he was obviously apprehensive, and having flubbed it, substituted the heart of a pig. If it was HIS idea he would not have had to take these substitute measures. Did your movie go right from the rescue of the baby from the fire into the brother in pursuit of Illiana or was there the scene I just mentioned in your version? I am very baffled about that.
I will now hang up and wait to hear your reply. I am very anxious to learn what the rest of you perceived from the sometimes inappropriate and confusing dialogue.
Barbara
Patrick and I did discuss our insights on a morning walk, so my views may reflect some of his commentary (however, he has been informed that he should write his own report). I will take Mike's comments as a jumping off point...because it give me a place to begin.
I hadn't actually processed the possibility of not cheering for any of the characters to "win" until Mike made the "evil and eviler" comment. INDEED, there was no one to really root for...although I did like a few of those dwarves. Snow White herself never matured past ego-centrism. Pat recalled that in the original she became the dwarves housekeeper (and in this she is merely a "guest" in their hovel). My take on it was that as a child hearing the original story (which only came back to me in snips and vague recollections while this version spun by) Snow White's selfishness is completely acceptable because that's how children act...however, getting a fresh look at her as an adult, she lacks depth...thus she gets little sympathy from me.
There were a few cryptic incidents which plague the finisher in me...and I'd appreciate any insights: ...what happens to the sexually malicious dwarf who is the first to leave? He makes a prediction that the others will be buried underground...which comes true; however, he never reappears...and I was sure he was headed into the service of the step mother.
...what did the step mother mean when she said (near the end) that she knew Liliana when she took her first breath in the womb? Does this imply that she was controlling those wolves which set the trap for the traveling carriage?
...and who were those people in the church who were moaning in anticipation of the "upside-down crucifixion" show? Were they the drugged servants?
And in another approach to this discussion...which events from the original story were modified or changed for this version? I recall that those servants were put to sleep using a similar drug to the one given to Snow White ...but in this version the servants appear to have been killed (or turned into evil zombies).
In the original the Step Mother's big sins were pride and vanity...wanting to be the most beautiful woman in the kingdom. And I don't recall a miscarried child, so the new version turns that around into a major warping even in the Step Mom's life...the lost child turns her against the step child and into a truly evil person.
...which brings me to an interesting Pat point. Claudia wanted to have her own child...couldn't just love the child she was given (Liliana).
And my assumption was that Claudia's mother was a witch (the reason she was unaccepted...and perhaps even burned at the stake) and then Claudia actually became a witch as well...demented by her desire to have a child; however, this works in strange counterpoint to the original vanity motif...which they didn't totally abandon. So the story unhinges somewhat with this additional element.
And the prince charming twist was DELIGHTFUL. It was the one adult addition which made the movie for me. When that guy fell (was pushed) out the window I actually felt like cheering! Shows the problem with being unable to think outside the princely charming box! He was "too stupid to live" and then was killed!
That's all I'll say for my initial comments. I will freely comment on the
comments of others as they roll in.
Vicki
I usually watch videos just to relax and help me recuperate after a week of putting in more hours than I should. So.....it is with a bit of trepidation that I try to put my views out there with all you thinkers. Nevertheless, I'm not one to be afraid to try something so what the heck.
First and foremost, Snow White was a movie you could watch with a group. Vicki didn't cower in the corner or walk out of the room, and I didn't fall asleep or get snitty.
Secondly, it was easy to follow the storyline. This is important because I'm not the most intelligent person in the world and I don't usually watch movies to be enlightened or develop my "cultural" personna. If I have to concentrate too much on a Friday night, I'm out of the loop.
Third, it was a movie that wouldn't be too awful for a family to watch together. There was no gratuitous sex and little or no swearing. A good movie for a family to watch with kids that are a little bit older.
Fourth, I loved the scenery. I'm a scenery person and really enjoyed the forest and the castle scenes. The scene by the creek made me want to be right there looking at my face in the crystal clear water with a bed of reddish yellow leaves all around.
Two points of dissention:
After the fist scene, which I liked, the movie seemed just to get worse. The dialouge was obtuse. I never felt any empathy for any of the characters and there was no flow from one scene to another. The only actor who had any thing to work with was Sigourney Weaver. I thought her performance was very disciplined. The evil step mother role could have been way over done.
Even in the end there was no evil cackeling or posturing. Just
a nice subdued evil. I have never read the original Snow White fairy tale. The
only snow white I have known was the Disney version. So, as far as the story
line went I did not have any precoceptions to confuse me. But, the movie was
so terrible it did not matter any way. Hopefully, I will find the next movie
more interesting so I will have a little more to say.
Keith
2nd review
Hello, to all y'all(there's a little Texan for you Pat) up there in winter's icy grip.
Maybe I was a little to harsh in my criticsm of Snow White . I was expecting a much better movie than what appeared on my television screen. So I was very dissapointed when it ended. Once you mentioned it Pat, it did seem to be fall all during the movie. I think that was a trick of the director to help set such a dark somber mood for the picture. Plus I think it was his interpretation of how dreary and depressing it must have been to live in that time period.
Thanks to Claudia for pointing out the only other scene in the movie I really liked. I loved that line "there that's better" when the step mother is done cutting Lily's face. Maybe that's twisted but that was the only other good scene in the movie. But, I think it was just a gimick so there wouldn't be such a happy ending.
Well, stay warm up there and maybe El Niño
will send a little Texas winter your way.
Keith
Ok - where was the horror violence and where was the scene of sexuality? This movie was a true disappointment.
Explain to me why Frederick killed his wife in the beginning? Was it to alleviate the pain of dying? Was he really devoted to her and did he really love her? Why didn't the dogs eat them? All that smell of blood, surely that would have attracted the dogs.
Granted Lilliana was manipulative little wench, but then so was Claudia. It was a battle between who was more manipulative. There seemed to be a big void between the wedding night scene with the tossing of the whatever into Claudia's face and Lilliana as a young adult. The movie just jumped to the period in time where the crux of the story lied instead of supporting the premise of the conflict between stepmother & daughter. It just bothers me when a movie skips 10+ years in order to achieve the current time period of the story line.
Did Claudia actually possess supernatural powers? Or could she only control acts of nature. Was the person in the mirror her mother's voice or her own jealousy? Also, perhaps Gustave could not speak because she made it so? The filming was so dark, it was hard to see the function of the mirror and its images. I guess that the movie was "dark" to lend to its scary premise.
OK I am going to say it now. How could you not know that Lilliana would not fall in love with the ONLY good looking dwarf or whatever the hell they were. The other gentlemen were either old, mamed, stupid, or just ugly. And here he was dashing, strong, some what sensitive. I honestly bet that the one act of sexuality was going to be between them.
After the first 30 minutes of the movie I just started to laugh and think to myself. What have I done? For our very first movie, I suggested a dud. Now my family & friends can openly discuss this dud. Vicki, you were far far far tooooooo generous with your stars. I was thinking of asking for my money back on this rental. I think that Blockbuster owes me. If I had to give it something, I think that I would give it the heave ho. I would not recommend this movie and I am trying to erase it from my memory.
I had another thought on Snow White : How trite at the end of the movie with Lilliana, Frederick & the hunk forming a cross while sitting on the ground. And then IT STARTS SNOWING. That was tooooooooooo much. It was not even real snow. Also, why in for the wedding scene do they not show the wedding, just the wedding night? Is it a custom to bless the NAKED couple before copulating? OK, why did the dog turn on Lilliana when Claudia made a point to say something about the dog being faithful if you are good to it? Does this mean that Lilliana was not good to the dog, that it attacked her?
Ok, why didn't the dead baby decompose? After that much time, the smell would have been unbearable. Wouldn't the baby's arm come off its body when it waved?
Alright, I will stop now since I am nit-picking.
Sorry, I guess better luck next time.
Kim
In response to MY question about a scene that was missing from our movie, HBO will sometimes have a different version. So now I know I'm not losing my mind. Well I don't really know that but this is not the place for that stuff. Yes, I did miss the facial scar look-alike at the end (Claudia). But I did notice the blood. Seldom in ANY movie is the blood good blood. And in one of those behind the scenes shows I discovered that the blood is usually Karo syrup... so now I can't get my mind off of that every time I see blood. As far as it being Fall all the time (Patrick and then Keith).... what does that mean and how do you know. What does Fall look like besides colored leaves on trees.... or is that what you were seeing all the time? When I re-rent the movie I will be looking for this.
And as far as the religious comments (Patrick and then Kimberly): a movie has to be for, against, or about something, otherwise it's a travelog, or news clip, or documentary. I don't think all movies take anti-religion/god shots as part of their dialogue. And the ones that do you can opt not to watch.... unless you are a CLUB MEMBER! So don't be too upset by this issue. As a divorced mother I have been the backwall against which plenty of trash has been hurled but because it did not apply to me personally I neve felt insulted.
As to why the father was hung upside down on the cross (Patrick) ..... I would assume the upside down thing is quicker since all that blood rushes to your head. The right side up form usually ends up in death by suffocation because of the lungs. So I think it would appear more dramatic the way they did it, and there was the possibility of draining his blood (which never really happened).
(Kimberly) wanted to know where the sexuality scene was? It was just beneath your screen and out of sight. You had to be able to interpret Fredrick's facial gestures and Claudia's body movements. In other words, a hand job! No further comment since this is not the Sex Discussion club.
As to why Frederick killed his wife in the opening scene (Kimberly). I just assumed it was because she was dying AND pregnant and she did not want the baby to die with her so asked him to do a crude but apparently effective C-section on her. As to why didn't the dogs eat them..... well, maybe there is just so much a dog can eat and then no more. Actually I was puzzled at this also.
Claudia's supernatural powers (Kimberly)? I think certain people can possess powers beyond what the average person has available to them. This is what created the notion of witches. Now back to the movie: Claudia's mother, and then Claudia I believe were witches and therefore had very strong minds. But to topple trees was a bit more than the average witch can even negotiate..... I think! But don't quote me on that. We survived one heresy trial but I don't want to put my luck to the test.
What happened to the sexually malicious dwarf that was forced to leave (Vicki)? He had more fun than anyone else most likely. Maybe he was the one who rigged the cave in. And then again maybe it was Claudia playing Mother Nature again. In the book version the "mirror" tells her exactly where Snow White is at all times, usually in riddle form. So I think sometimes the movie picked up parts of the book to make it work..... which it didn't because everyone who did not come with the original story firmly implanted in their brain (due to numerous childhood readings) only found the plot confusing because of all the assumptions and gaps.
What did the step mother mean when she said she knew Lilliana when she took her first breath in the womb (Vicki)? I think that was a form of prediction..... as if we sense when something is on the horizon and wait for it with dread to appear. I don't think it meant that she knew her as a person, but rather as a threat. But then remember I saw this movie as a Good vs Evil (and what IS evil) sort of plot.
I don't remember the people in the church who were moaning (Vicki).... I was too caught up in Claudia's singing. It was actually unnerving to me because it was so odd and seemingly out of place? As if she were a cantor, or a performer, and what were those ceremonies at which she was singing, certainly not mass. The singing for me took precedence over the moaning. So I can't help you there.
The original story (Vicki) was very simple to understand. And I think most of what was written a long time ago (including Scripture) was political in nature. It was to make a point without actually saying something and being hung for it; and it also was to try to influence the people to herd in one direction or another for reasons of control. So Nursery Rhymes, etc. were written for a specific purpose and NOT as entertainment.. If you don't understand the underlying message it all is just silly and whimsical stuff like Humpty Dumpty, Jack and Jill, etc. I do want to get a copy of the original and skim it just for my own satisfaction.
The (Pat) Point which Vicki included about "Claudia wanting to have her own child.... why couldn't she just love the one she was given".... was the premise I began with in my review. The fact that Claudia DID want to love Lilliana but the child made that impossible (for all those years we did not see in the movie but which the child referred to in her request for forgiveness). That final act (the dance scene) on Lilliana's part created unreconcilable hurt and anger which became a hatred so strong it had a force all it's own (with Nature added in) and destroyed everything it touched. (Brian): You sure about the thumbs business? I'm glad you joined the group and now I am very curious what you will find enjoyable. Guess what, I also love love love Dune! I can see this developing into a love/hate thing. The movies I love, you will hate and vice versa! The Lion in Winter........ what will be your read on that one? Wow I can't wait.
Whew, now I can file away all these messages.
Barbara